I've been censored on Quora, and little wonder. Someone posed the question:
Christians, if you found out your son or daughter is gay, would you lovingly accept their partner into your home?
Dumb old me, I have to answer it. Keep reading for a politically incorrect answer to the question along with a semi-civilized debate with two other Quora users who disagreed with me.
Disclaimer: Your mileage may vary, void where prohibited, any trigger warning you can think of has officially been made in this general statement: Rhino hides only! If you're a sensitive perpetually pissed off little snowflake, the rest of this post is likely to damage your tender little psyche.
Dangerous content lurks below the fold.
I decided to answer this one for several reasons, not the least of which is that the question is provocative and the quandary exists more often than not in today's modern,
PT-FYUAC-SD (Post Traumatic Fuck You Under Any Circumstances Stress Disorder). Throwing a little gasoline on the fire are the facts that I'm a Christian (not a good Christian, but a Christian none the less), and my Internet friend Glen Filthie has had a similar problem posed to him in his own home. Glen, by the way, made the right decision for the right reasons.
My answer is the first entry. I attracted the attention of another user who is clearly a bit light in the loafers. Here's the exchange, beginning with my answer to the question:
Christians, if you found out your son or daughter is gay, would you lovingly accept their partner into your home?
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Jack Racham
Never.
I wouldn’t allow my adult child into my home if he was drunk or high on drugs, or worshiping the evil one. All those things, and a few more, are deal breakers.
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Rob Tisinai
But the question isn’t about being drunk, being high on drugs, or worshipping [worshiping - MJ] the evil one (Kim Kardashian?). It’s about being gay, which is none of those things.
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Mad Jack
So what? The principal is the same, and the answer is not just no, but hell no.
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Rob Tisinai
What is the principle?
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Mad Jack
Committing yourself to an activity that your family finds morally reprehensible, and doing so without the slightest thought about changing, about sinning, about the others you injure.
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Rob Tisinai
“Committing yourself to an activity”?
No. More like: Living an authentic life with love and commitment to a partner in a way that injures your family not at all (or you, or your partner).
We are not slaves to our family’s wishes, especially when those wishes are not just wrong, but immoral.
In fact, your description of “Committing yourself to an activity that your family finds morally reprehensible, and doing so without the slightest thought about changing, about sinning, about the others you injure,” actually applies to those who hold on to homophobic ideas at the expense of the happiness and well-being of their gay family members.
Basically, then, the principle you’ve cited is a reason why they lovingly accept their child’s same-sex partner into their home.
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Mad Jack (This is the answer censored by Quora, citing their be nice to others policy)
The life a homosexual leads is not authentic, although it may be so to them. In reality their life is a perversion, and if any child or relative of mine decided to live as a pervert, I wouldn’t have them in my home. Of course the same goes for their ‘partner’. This is my home, and my choice.
As far as injury to others is concerned, the perverts are completely selfish. What they are saying is that their gratification is more important than everyone else’s mental anguish. There isn’t anything beautiful about that.
I stand by my original answer, and I don’t need your approval or your condescending lies.
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Rob Tisinai
My condescending lies? Oh, the irony.
You’re demanding that gay people live their own lives to accommodate other people’s false and unfounded prejudice. That is entirely selfish.
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Ray Butler
Being homosexual relates to devil worship, using drugs and being intoxicated how?
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Mad Jack
You figure it out Ray. I don’t have the time or the patience to explain it to you.
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Jake Fellows
Isn’t forgiveness part of the gig?
Pretty sure that isn’t how JC would have handled it…
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Mad Jack
Sure is, but these two aren’t asking for forgiveness. They’re asking for approval, and I’m not up for that. Nor do I offer any apologies for my stance.
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THE END
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And that's that. I'm not bothering with the rest, as I'm convinced that Quora will only censor my posts again.
The truth is that the Bible clearly states that homosexuality is a sin. So is drunkenness, so is murder, so are a bunch of other things people do. I, personally, tend to dislike overt homosexual behavior, which is what the gay pride movement is all about. Like another type of movement, it leaves a piles of fertilizer behind it that someone else gets to clean up.
The gay pride movement doesn't want equal rights. What they want is approval, and that's one thing that I'll never give them. They also want special treatment, and special exceptions made for their particular perversion - because that's what it is, a perversion.
Me, I'm against it. I won't watch their parade, I won't support their cause, and I won't make exceptions for them.
14 comments:
Honestly, this topic came up with my son over a post HE was drawn into a debate on. As long as they feel that whatever they want to do is legitimized by the fact that they want to do it, they won't get it. And they want us to acquiesce nicely. I'm with you, MJ.
Thanks CW.
As I said, the homos and perverts want approval for their activities, and they want special consideration given to them. I refuse.
I wonder just how tolerant that gay person would have been if the question had been asked of him, if his daughter fell in love with a man who owned dozens of guns and thousands of rounds of ammo? Because the left is more intolerant than the right when it comes to things that the constitution gives explicit approval of, such as freedom of religion, or gun rights, etc.
I don't judge any man or woman, but that doesn't mean that I have to approve of what they do, and I certainly don't have to support it.
I have written on quora many times, and often find that leftists are only looking for a fight and not a real answer. Or the people ask questions that if they would just do a google search, would get much more information than I can give them. I think they are looking for validation.
I always viewed these things a lot like Jack. I never expected to have a gay child. It sure complicates the issues, no matter how cut and dried you think it is before you find out you accidentally raised a rainbow warrior. So, I would say if you think you know what you would do, and you don't even have straight children, let alone gay children, it's just an academic exercise.
PigPen: You're right about tolerance. The Left is tolerant, so long as your behavior isn't too far to the Right.
Anonymous: Good point. I wrote what I believe I would do, but just let it happen to you, personally, and see how you react. I know of two cases where people are living in the closet because of their parents, and in one case I suspect the Catholic church has a lot to do with it.
I have spent the better part of 7 years studying lesbians trying to understand them. I failed. Never thought I’d see myself do something like that, but being a father of a queer can make hard demands on a man. I can predict their behaviour in most circumstances with perfect accuracy - but I don’t get the “why” of it. Why are these young women, for example - with everything in life going for them... so eager to throw it away and bring shame and woe onto themselves? In frustration I did something else I never intended to do - I acquired the faith. God hasn’t spoken to me about queers or what their purpose in this world is, but He was kind enough to give me some perspective on my role here. For that I am truly thankful.
I am not a good Christian either, but I have read the New Testament and part of the old. That Bible tells us that while you are not supposed to judge others, you ARE expected to use judgement. That is what that book and the faith is all about really. I know that if my Maker came down here or sent a prophet out among us... that He’d heal women like my daughter. Anyone driven to live as they do is not well. You wouldn’t invite a dangerous felon into your home; you certainly don’t want these people under your roof either... or near your children.
God is trying to tell us something with the queers. Maybe their liberal enablers are the lesson? There are people in the church that have escaped the lunacy of homosexuality and progressivism as I have and that is a small miracle in and of itself. Be thankful you aren’t like that. Be thankful for the people that raised you better than that. Be true to your Maker and your code and His. Perhaps that is the lesson? The queers and the other sexually conflicted...
Could it be that they are God’s problem, and not ours? The answer is certainly beyond Quora.
Have a good night fellas. If ya ever figure that one out, stop by the Thunderbox and clue me in.
I know this is a hard topic, for many people. And especially now, that it is out in our faces, and we are forced to accept the so called lifestyles of those who are gay. As a Christian, the thing for me is that if it was some other sin, you would welcome that person into your home, and try to help them, with your last breath.
Say your neighbor's 15 year old son got arrested for stealing a car, and his parents were throwing him out. With no place to go, many would take him under their roof, and try and work with him, get him to go to church, and lead him to the Lord, and show him how to live, and to work, and give him some self esteem and a goal for his life. And try to redeem him and make something of his life.
Perhaps the same thing for a young lady, from a town or two away, who had been abused by her step father, and needed a safe place to finish growing up, and a Godly Christian woman to teach her that the place of a woman can be a good thing, and that the young lady can start over, be involved in church, and a new school, where no one will know what happened to her at her old place, and where she can have a chance to finish high school and go to college.
Now let's look to the Bible, at the book of James, ch. 2, v 10. It tells us that basically all sin is the same, and when God looks at sin, he doesn't see the sin of stealing a car, or of being involved in a sexual relationship with an older male, and He also doesn't see the sin of homosexuality, He simply sees sin. And if we ask for His forgiveness, He forgives us from ALL sin, not just that sin which we are comfortable with, but all sin, even the ugly parts of it.
Because homosexuality makes us uncomfortable, we can find ourselves judging it harsher than perhaps other sins, but to God, they are all the same, and they all sent His Son to die on the Cross.
So the gay daughter is no worse than the gay son who is no worse than the son in college who sleeps around with a different girl every weekend. Or the daughter in college who cheats on her tests. We might be more uncomfortable with one over another, but in reality, they are all the same, in God's eyes.
Of course, I find it strange that a gay man will say that it is perfectly fine to be attracted to another man, and then is attracted to a man who looks and dresses like a woman. There is a strange dichotomy there, just like the female gay who is attracted to another female gay who is masculine looking. It seems to indicate that they are still drawn to masculinity. And I think that Jesus Christ died on the cross to pay for our sins, and that includes the sins of homosexuality. But I also think that we must try to forgive just as Jesus forgives us and gave his life to die for us.
Glen: You're further along in the Bible than I am. Good job!
PigPen: I agree, right up to the point where you offer help. You're presuming that the person in question wants to change, and if that were true I'd try my best to help.
That desire to change is not present here.
The person in question doesn't want to stop or change the objectionable behavior, whatever it might be. What he wants is support, approval, and special treatment to further enable his behavior. Doesn't matter what it is; drunkenness, drug abuse, violence, abuse of various kinds, or homosexuality. He likes himself the way he is, and he wants to keep right on going.
That's the part that gets him turned out of my house.
All that said and being the case, you're a good man Pigpen. Keep up the good work!
"Raised you better than that."
Yeah... Go fuck yourself Glen.
Mad Jack,
I appreciate you saying that I am a good man, but the truth is, I really am not. And that is why I find myself so able to reach out to others, who perhaps live their lives in a sinful and God dishonoring way. The closer you get to God, actually the more of your own sinfulness you are able to see.
I have always lived my life trying to be the perfect son, the perfect student, the perfect athlete, etc. I had school teachers, high school coaches, etc. all supporting me, saying things about how good of a person I was, etc. Because I was the youngest of 5 kids, and had a twin brother, and I always felt pressure to try and somehow EARN my parents love or make up for the fact that my twin brother lived his life in a way that dishonored my parents. Of course, we know that no one can live that kind of a life. And so, on the outside, I did great, and earned every single award possible in school, etc. While on the inside, I suffered, thinking that I was never good enough.
It was only after I understood just exactly how God loved us, and sent Jesus precisely because of the fact that we simply could never live good enough that I was able to find some kind of peace, and stop having to try to earn my parents love and even God's love. Because I learned that God loved me already, even while I was still a sinner, He sent His Son to die for me. Not for the world, but for ME, specifically.
Is homosexuality a sin? I think that it is, only if the person acts on their desires that they have within themselves. Just like, I might have desires to make me look at a woman with lust in my eyes. It becomes a sin when I allow it to become a real thought or idea and I give in to the choice of letting it take over my mind, and maybe even act on it.
A thought held within my own mind doesn't hurt another. But if I take action on that thought, then it can cause harm to the other person, and at that point, it becomes sin, and I must either deal with it, or it comes between God and myself, and harms our relationship.
One thing we do need to remember is that mankind is now born with a sinful nature. That is, with a " want to" sin born inside of us, that we inherited from our genes all the way back to Adam. Even if we never committed any actual sin that we might see, we still have a need for forgiveness, due to the very nature of our sinful nature we are born in due to Adam, and his original sin.
I know all this is a lot of talk, and such, but I find it interesting, and I like to learn from others, and what they think about different issues in the news. Like, what is your opinion of the things happening with the NRA right now? Big things happening there, no? What does it all mean, and where will it end?
Homosexuality is a choice. Everything in life is a choice, right on up to and including slavery. Nobody is driven to sin, contrary to the progressives. My grandparents had a lower standard of living than your average modern day welfare slob - and they never had a stitch of an issue with the law. Yet every second black baboon with a rap sheet a mile long gets to lay the blame for his crimes on society - and I call BS. If queers were rational people serious about getting along nobody would hate them, and they wouldn’t need activist hacks in the judiciary waging lawfare to advance their agenda. Fuck ya right back, Anonymous - with a chainsaw.
Poverty, environment and even genetics do not drive perversion or crime or immortality. All those things are, the vast majority of the time, deliberately chosen. People that aren’t raised right are told that they are not responsible or accountable for their poor decisions. It’s the reason that liberals and Democrats do so well with marginal and low quality people. Good people don’t make excuses for themselves or others.
Jack:
And that's why I NEVER get into such debates with the unlearned, uninformed, and unintelligible.
The Bible spells it out, and I';ve no issue with that.
GOD SAID IT - I BELIEVE IT - THAT SETTLES IT used to be saying.
The arguments on the other side hold about as much water as a sieve, and I don't have the time nor the inclination to smack my head against such walls (even if it feels SO good when I stop).
But that's just my opinion, boss.
PigPen: Good is a relative term, and given that you live inside your own head, you wouldn't know just how good you are. Believe me, you're a good man.
As for the NRA, I have no idea. I'm more inclined to support the Gun Owners of America anyway, as that group is far less likely to compromise. I believe the current situation illustrates that power and authority tend to corrupt, and as a result the NRA has lost sight of what the organization is supposed to be accomplishing.
Glen: People, all of us, have inclinations for one reason or another. I, for instance, have an addictive personality. It's easy for me to become psychologically addicted to a substance. I have to be a little extra careful about pain meds, drinking, that kind of thing. That inclination does not absolve me of responsibility, which is where the Left comes from. The they can't help it, because... and the they deserve it, because..., which as you point out is complete stable dressing.
They, whoever they are just now, can help themselves. Certain people may need a little extra help, which I'm always willing to give.
If queers were rational people serious about getting along nobody would hate them, and they wouldn’t need activist hacks...
And right here is the reality of the situation. This is what rational gay people are doing - they're ignoring the entire business and getting on with their lives. If they feel threatened, they should join the Pink Pistols.
Bob G: You, sir, are a wise man. Here's a hoist of the afternoon bourbon glass and a tip of the old fedora to you.
I can only say to everyone here that I have interacted with, that I appreciate your willingness to discuss a topic such as this, without becoming angry, or irrational. It often is difficult to find people willing to approach things that are hot button topics in a civil way, and I really appreciate being able to come here and discuss this in an adult way. As I have mentioned, I am under no illusion that I am always right. In fact, I have been corrected many times. My willingness to change my mind when pointed out that I am wrong is one reason that I have been able to have difficult discussions with leftists. Not many,but at least the ones who know that I am a reasonable person, who will change, if proven wrong. I only expect the same from them.
While I think that the issue of homosexuality has probably been driven long enough, at least by me, I hope that we are able to discuss other things on another occasion. I respect all of your input, and enjoy hearing from different points of view.
I wish you all a good weekend, and safe days ahead.
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